Christians try to put everyone they don’t like on the same spectrum of rebellious and misguided children who are willfully disobedient; that way, they think that if they are stern enough, that we’ll become manageable.
It’s because the authoritarian approach stern dietydaddy works on them, so they imagine that what works and motivated them, also works and motivates other people.
But, their tactics don’t work because we aren’t misbehaving children, we’re thinking adults who put god on the same spectrum as Santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
Non-believers think of believers as deluded and willful children who need to grow up and are chosing not to, but, with encouragement and education (an authoritative approach), they can grow up and become productive adults.
But, we’re wrong too, because no one is willing to own how childish it is, in a manner that will break the stalemate – largely because the change that’s required is for believers, if not to stop believing, at least to not literally beleive.
There are orders of magnitude of belief – there is only one magnitude of non-belief.
I provide a true and not entirely typical exchange, because most exchanges devolve into childish name calling, but it’s the grown up essence of the usually childish debate:
Lucifer had free will. And he eventually used that free will to rebel against God and take a third of the angels with him….
so basically you are admitting that using your free will is what god deems to be evil
so good is obiedance and evil is using your brain
that explains much more than you meant to
Evil is rebellion against God.
How interesting that you identify with the devil…
You seem to be able to twist things as masterfully as Satan and seem to be able to know what God is thinking.
if by “twist” you mean, unravel and speak plainly
then yes, atheists do speak plainly and truthfully
you should try it sometime
He didn’t create rebellion anymore than American created Charles Manson.
Think that through a little while. Ponder it for more than a few minutes.
you think about it; we are all products of our environment, America did create Charles Manson – the lack of universal health care and welfare resulted in his being raised in a boy’s home rather than in a family home
the fundamentalist factions created the social conditions that resulted in the 50’s sexual/teenager generation gap, the 60’s civil rights – it created the disaffected and disengaged generation – that Manson drifted into and became a leader to a small group of disaffected suburban teens who a generation earlier would have been Manson’s childhood tormentors and what he had aspired to be.
Manson acted out exactly as a wounded, maladjusted power mad and righteous man who was angry at being shut out of the system where as a straight white man, he should have benefitted from.
I see little difference between Manson and George W. Bush – only wealth and entitlement separate the two; the scale of childhood difference created the scale of adult destructive behaviour. Manson didn’t have a strong parental presence to guide him and neither did Bush Jr. Both resolved their daddy issues with violence – sending young men and women to do their killing for them.
So, shall we free Manson immediately? I mean you have just made a case, albeit flawed, for Manson’s innocence. “I am not responsible, I am only a product of my environment.”
Don’t think that flies in real real-world.
how unsurprising that you missed the point. but then, what can I really expect when you are such a rigid product of your environment.
try to break the programming and use that free will you hear so much about
God. His creation, His rules.
You admit your god is a dictator then.
Yes you are a petty dictator who can’t be reasoned with, but God is not like you.
better to be the dictator than the dictated to, like you
There IS evidence. Just evidence that you do not believe. Again disbelief does not cancel existence out.
claiming everything is not evidence for – that everything exists does not indicate where everything came from – it’s just a fact of existence.
also, claiming everything is evidence, doesn’t erase or take away from the contradiction of there being no objective evidence.
you are basically making the same claim that is the basis for the Elder Scrolls of Zion – that the lack of evidence of conspiracy is evidence for the conspiracy.
A lack of evidence is because there is nothing to create any.
As it occurred to you yet that the reason the people here are not believers is exactly because we stopped to think about these core issues and that it’s you who haven’t thought them through enough to reach the obvious conclusion?
The facts on the ground – reality – does not support there being a deity.
The laws of nature that can be observed or deduced or inferred through observation are observable because they are natural – unnatural or supernatural things do not make sense in a natural universe, they are against the laws of nature.
That every region throughout human history has had their own unique religion should be your first clue that religion is religion is religion – there is no more proof of one over another.
Unless you want to claim that god is all the gods of all the religions – in which case, you are worshipping a multi-personality, insane, instable, egomaniac, genocidal, god – with the only difference between that and your present god is the multiply personality part.
And you can’t say something or someone doesn’t exist just because you haven’t seen them, don’t know them, or don’t believe in them.
Imagine how Darwin would feel if every Christian would say that Darwin never existed? Or go back further. How do we know that Julius Caesar existed? Do we have his remains?
Darwin won’t feel a thing, he’s dead. We have photos and film of him – and there are people with living memory of him.
if you don’t understand how we know that Darwin and Caesar were real people, it’s no wonder that you don’t understand what constitutes evidence.
His remains were burned and many historians wrote about the event and about his life and career DURING HIS LIFETIME.
Further, there are accounts of Caesar in civilizations OTHER THAN ROME
the same cannot be said of your Jesus – there are no historians who wrote about him, King Herod was dead before the alleged birth and as much as Herod was hated, there is no secular record of him putting infants other than his own family members to death.
Nazareth was a Roman village founded around the 3rd century CE, so Jesus couldn’t have come from there. No Roman census records support the Mary and Joseph story.
None of Pontius Pilot’s records support the crucifixion – so, the whole thing was pretty much a smear campaign done centuries and several generations after the fact.
The equivalent would be if Elvis Presley had done everything in the 1950s, but no one took his photo or wrote a word about him and no recordings or movies survived
and no one wrote about him until 2 or 3 hundred more years yet – think about that for more than a few minutes