Born what way?

We are born and we are taught to beleive many things – but until we are taught the beliefs, we don’t already have belief or sense of the beliefs – childhood is learning what the norms are for your family and what the range of norms are in your respective society

the question is whether we continue learning to put context on our childhood

or whether we stay as children and don’t question or seek meaningful answers

We make friends as children and engage in play at other children’s homes – and we see the differences and the similarities. So we begin to develop a sense of what’s normal and what’s normal for me.

But if a childhood is sub-optimal, poverty, abuse, absentee parent(s), or we don’t learn to distinguish between social norms and personal norms – or we learn that our normal was sub-optimal and no adults intervened to correct the situation – then our experience of society is very different than the norms.

Our ability to accept social norms is tainted by experience into cynicism or perpetual victimhood or perpetual aggressor behaviour – as in out for number 1, except that number 1 is unworthy, so relationships become complicated even before a second person is connected to.

We are born as information and experience sponges – we are able to recognize faces and voices very early and we learn how to understand the facial expressions and vocal tones – which is why, with just a baby engaged tone of voice, you can have a baby happily cooing and eating while you  recite the phone book.

So it’s the experiences and the quality of care-taking that shapes what we beleive about ourselves, the world and our place in the world – that puts the limitations on our potential. Nurture informs nature.

So, we really do need to think of the children – think about the messages they get in society.

And I wonder, how people who think like Michele Bachman can look at a child and tell them that their family, that they experience as loving and is their whole world – and say that their parents shouldn’t be allowed to be together or have a child.

How can people who claim to follow a god of love – look at the families that gays and lesbians have created and beleive that ours are lesser than their families.

That our children are being harmed when it’s us who give them love and comfort and the religious people who judge and act as if their judgement is legally valid, when it’s religiously derived and not legally valid.

Seriously, if they really beleive that god sorts everyone out – then leave people to live their lives as they see fit.

I can only think that this need to make people’s lives miserable is because religious proponents secretly suspect there is no god, so they have to make the sinners suffer now, in case there is no final judgement.

After all, how many other nations have allowed gays and lesbians marriage and not been subjected to Armageddon?

12 thoughts on “Born what way?

  1. I am a lesbian and I am a practicing Catholic. I definitely believe in God, and it is from my own experiences witnessing what I think is God. God definitely seems to play a very important role in my life, I get pushed in a direction from all of my mistakes for a reason I believe. I know that God does not hate me because I am a lesbian. Society might have problems with it and when I eventually get married and have children, my children will face some hard times but it WILL NOT be lack of love. I think God puts obstacles in our lives and that will be one for my children and for me to deal with but I will not lose faith in God simply because a few religions of people claim God as their basis of anti-gay activism. It isn’t fair but Life isn’t fair.

  2. You seem to lump all religious/christian/people who love God all together into one category. This makes up a big part of the population, therefore you are going to see a lot of judgement and wrong doing. As you know, there are a lot of things that bother me about “Christianity” but there are a lot of really good people out there who actually live out “Love God and Love Others”. Your view that this world would be a better, more civil place without organized religion, I agree with. I however think that if you were around a few people with a Genuine love for God, and they were living the way he intended in their everyday lives, you would realize that more good would come out. I read your blog and it just makes me ill to see how Christianity has been shown to you.

    • I am lumping all religions – not just christian – into one category

      Supernaturalists vs naturalists

      the details of any religion, be it the Abrahamic ones (Judaism, Christian and Islam) or Shamanism, Spiritualism – anything that is based in supernatural agency and not in nature – is harmful when people act in the world as if what they beleive about the world is truth.

      When the only truths we can rely on, is the collective knowledge that humans have built up over time.

      And the only reason why we used to beleive wrong things, was because of having to act as if what people religiously believed was true.

      For centuries, we thought the earth was the centre of all things – and when we invented telescopes and starting plotting raw data about the other planets and their orbits and over a few people improving the telescope and instead of trying to make the data fit the idea, threw out the idea and looked at what the data told us – we realized that the sun was the centre and all the planets moved around the sun, not in loopy circles but in ellipses

      and what was religion’s answer to this new and natural understanding of nature?

      to make Galileo drink poison – the loss of him and many others who sought to explain the natural world in natural terms is incalculable.

      religion – whatever the religion – is a social force of upholding the status quo

      it holds back our natural understanding of the universe, it holds back social progress towards genuine equality – because if we were really equal, then it would be unimaginable for anyone to expect that anyone’s rights be put to a ballot – there would just be equality.

      religion makes people small, it makes them understand things in small ways, it makes them small people and it takes them away from their human potential by this abusive brainwashing that is no different than the machinations that goes on with survivors of childhood abuse – that you were unworthy of kind and consistent treatment but with a fierce family loyalty of not bringing in outsiders

      because the threat of outsiders means breaking up the family and even as terrible as it is, it’s still your family.

      And it’s heart sickening the loyalty that victims display for their abusers

      Blind worship of authority is the demand of abusive authority.

      Our freedom is measured by our ability to dissent and not be punished or silenced for dissenting.

      If we are not free to express our dissent, then we are not free.

  3. I think it has a lot to do with how they are raised

    Authoritiative parents – which religious parents tend to be – take a top down approach – the child is told and what’s told is never corrected because the parents learn from theirs and the ideas are passed down in an environment that does not encouraging questioning.

    Whereas, I realized that I was raised to question – I learned sarcasm, satire and irony before I was 12 and by the time I was 10, I was reading adult novels – mostly scifi 50s/60 pulp fiction

    and being exposed to a science based natural world resulted in a sense of constant striving to improve the situation for everyone – and what holds us back is our unquestioned religious beliefs – because religion is about who’s in good and who’s out and bad – the idea of some people being special and favoured does not play well in a secular land were everyone is supposed to be equal under the law.

    and this idea that if you’re famous or powerful enough, that the normal rules of society don’t apply to you – that’s a religious idea to – people beleive that they have a destiny – which is usually good for them and bad for everyone else. Especially when religion is tangled into said destiny.

    Dictators think they are chosen by the gods to be a god.

    And these types have no place in leading secular nations that are of the people. by the people and for the people.

    Not by or for dieties. For people.

    we need to think about people first, how to coexist and part of that is not clinging to ideas that divide us into approved and non-approved people. That religious thinking has to go the way of the dinosaurs.

  4. Humans are not nice to other humans. Perhaps it is a holdover from the past, where casting out the odd ones made the rest of the tribe work better as a team. Even in children, anyone a little different gets punished. As adults believing in a sky god that saves their immortal soul, anyone who doesn’t believe in the same thing is odd, an outcast to be cast out. They will never ever understand that different doesn’t mean bad/evil/sinner.

    • yes, people who seek conformity do not tolerate those of us who seek individuality

      so the story of people is the story of the struggle to maintain status quo against social change and time.

      and those of us who see the best in what’s ahead rather than looking to the past and waxing so nostalgic that they have to act as if the good old days were real

      • I can only suppose that this way of thinking used to be good for the group. We never would have evolved so far so fast without the group working together. So it might be too much to ask everyone to get on with evolving and realise the world doesn’t work that way any longer. We are the next generation, and they are keeping those of us who want to propagate the new human species from doing so – but it is a new way of thought, not a chemical, biological change. Hmm.

        • Change for the sake of change should be avoided, change when it confers benefits or expands who’s included as equal, these are good changes.

          But while traditions remind us of where we came from and who we were and what we retain – these shouldn’t be fanatical clinging to these to avoid change

          but both should be an ebb and flow – hold onto what was good and leave behind the bad at the earliest opportunity.

          and recognize that everything has the potential for good and for bad – and the trick is to maximize the good

  5. I briefly taught a women’s studies undergrad course. I asked them about various surface beliefs they had–political and religious beliefs, etc. then I asked WHY they believed that way–was it because their parents did, or because they agreed with the principles? Most had never given it a single thought.

    Nurture indeed.

    • It’s funny, my sister raised her daughter without ever telling lies – my niece knew Santa was a pretend thing to get more presents – so she never had that moment of finding out something told her to was a lie to control behaviours.

      I don’t know how kids don’t lump god in with the tooth fairy, Santa, boogeyman, easter bunny and all these characters that don’t exist.

      • It just astounded me, even pre-therapy me, that they had never thought to pick up a book and read for themselves about their religion, or their political party. They had never stopped to question why they believed–they trusted their parents, and so they believed as they were taught.

        How terribly destructive that is on so many levels. It certainly nearly destroyed me.

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